Guest post by Brittany Fowler from The High-Heeled Housewife
My husband is in law school, and we’re surrounded by friends who are going into thousands of dollars of debt to afford a law degree. As graduation approaches, we’re both so glad that we don’t have massive amounts of student debt.
When my husband decided to go to law school, we knew that we needed to make sacrifices. With hard work and some smart decisions, we’ve been able to lessen the financial impact of professional school. Here’s how we did it:
My husband chose a state school where he was offered a scholarship.
I can’t emphasize how important it was to choose the right school at the right price. Of course, the scholarship was a result of my husband’s hard work, which earned him a high GPA and LSAT score. Hard work pays off!
I worked for the first two years.
Although I’m now a homemaker and blogger, I worked for the first two years of law school. Through those years, we lived off of my husband’s summer income and saved every penny I made so that I would be able to stay at home.
We live on a budget.
Since cash flow is irregular, we have planned out our monthly expenses a year in advance. Having a plan gives me assurance for months when we don’t have any income.
We save money whenever possible.
I use coupons at the grocery store, play the drugstore game, and do anything I can myself. For example, I wash and iron my husband’s clothes at home to save on our dry cleaning bill.
In a world where debt is a necessity, it’s still possible to go to graduate or professional school without loans! We’ve learned that the right decisions, accompanied by hard work, will pay off in the end.
Brittany is a 24-year-old stay-at-home wife on a mission to be the best wife that she can possibly be. She is married to her hardworking hubby, Charles, who will graduate from law school in 2012. You can read more about her homemaking tips & tricks at The High-Heeled Housewife.
I am getting my masters in nursing education and we are paying cash. I work a few days per month from home as a nurse to cover preschool, food, and medical expenses, and we otherwise live on my husband’s salary and save like crazy. I am also trying to apply for every scholarship I can, but we should make it without debt. It helped that my husband is a software engineer and makes an above average salary, but we went into this debt free except our mortgage.
We already had two kids by the time my husband started graduate school, and for us, it wasn’t an option for me to work full-time to support him and pay for his tuition. We have some debt, more than I’d like, but it’s been over a year since we borrowed anything, and if things go as planned we won’t have to take out any more student loans for him to complete his PhD.
I also like to think that I am “supporting” him through school by being a good wife, mother and homemaker, and by saving money every crazy way I can think of. (And some of them are pretty crazy, let me tell you.)
I’m the wife of a lawyer. He graduated in 2008 from a prominent private law school and when he graduated we had zero debt. The reason? We decided to accept a full-ride scholarship from a less prominent school than he could have attended. He did very well there and it put him on a good career path. We’ve never regretted the decision. I did work all three years he was in school so we didn’t need cost of living loans. But, we lived on cash and budgeted every penny. We are blessed. Because of our experience…contrasted with the experiences of so many others, whenever anyone asks him tips for law school, he says ” do not go unless you’re on a full-ride scholarship.” Period. End of discussion. This is a bad season for lawyers. Big law is not what it used to be and there are no promises for a “better income” out there. In fact, the number of his law school classmates who graduated near the top of their class, but are shouldering enormous debt and who can’t find paying law jobs is staggering. A law degree which comes with debt is no guarantee of anything but a lot of debt…which is not forgivable.
That sounds a lot like our situation. My husband’s advice would probably be similar, although I think he might say “if you can’t do it without debt, don’t go”. You’re right that this is a trying time for young lawyers & recent law grads. Maybe the market will pick back up soon, but for now, law school definitely isn’t a sure bet for a high-paying job.
Unfortunately this debt doesn’t just happen with law and medical school. People need to consider it carefully and think about the job market and potential realistic earnings in comparison with the tuition cost. My husband just finished up an Associates at a community culinary school and is looking for a job. Our loans are minimal, but the job market here for culinary students is super-competitive. There are two world-famous culinary schools here. Their students still graduate with $60,000 or more in loans and start at $8.50/hour as a line cook. That’s why DH didn’t go that route. His job-placement person at school says this is the worst year he’s ever seen for graduates. Their job placement right now is about 50% of the graduating class when most years it is well over 75% and a good number of the people who have jobs are underemployed.
As for me, I’d love to go back to school to get a Master’s in occupational therapy but I don’t have 2+ years and about $60,000, and saving that much would take us a very long time since we would also have to replace my income in addition to the tuition payments. The only programs I can find for that degree are private schools and highly competitive.
My husband graduated from law school in 2000, before we got married & had 2 kids Eleven years later, his law school debt is still around $300k. Yes, you read that right. For some reason, it doesn’t bother him (or he doesn’t let it) because he says it will take him a lifetime to pay it off. He earns a pretty great salary now though not what he would be getting if he were in biglaw. Now, that would make paying off his law loans easy. However, he chose to work with smaller firms and now is in-house with a corporation, so that he would have time to spend with our family and not be a slave to the firm, chasing after billable hours. No regrets.
Sylvia, I applaud you guys concerning two statements:
“However, he chose to work with smaller firms and now is in-house with a corporation, so that he would have time to spend with our family and not be a slave to the firm, chasing after billable hours. No regrets.”
AND
“For some reason, it doesn’t bother him (or he doesn’t let it) because he says it will take him a lifetime to pay it off.”
You got to enjoy life, what is done is done 🙂
I really think that the decision whether to take out student loans, delay college or not go at all is very personal, and also has a lot to do with your goals, and what you think that the future will look like.
1) College tuition is increasing at faster than the rate of inflation, this means that college tuition is likely also increasing faster than your wages are too. You can try to compensate for this by finding a good value education, which works most of the time (I have done this!). Sometimes a really bright student has career aspirations that go beyond what a state college can provide, by taking out loans they can go to a better school, develop high level connections, and have a better chance of doing something extraordinary (become President? CEO?)
2) Student Loan availability and interest rates can and will change over the next 5-10 years. Waiting to attend college could mean paying higher interest rates, having less loan $$ available, or other unfavorable term changes. If you end up delaying college but can’t save enough, this is a risk.
3) The workforce in the last three years has really undergone a cataclysmic shift for young people. Recent college graduates are finding it increasingly hard to find a job– this is bad. What are these students doing as a stop gap measure? they are taking jobs that were once the bastion of high school graduates. In many areas this is resulting in a hyper-competitive job market, where workers are competing with each other for jobs that are well below their skill level/experience. This is going to impact a potential students ability to find a decent paying job without a degree (at least the kind where you can save money for college).
That said– if you really want to avoid debt, why not consider the military? If you do your homework, talk to people and enter with realistic expectations it can be a great opportunity including on the job training, help with college tuition down the line, and great terms on mortgages if you decide to go down that route later in life.
I think that the college decision is much like many we face today– we each need to do the research, set priorities, and find our own solutions that might involve “thinking a little outside the box”.
The military is a great way to pay for school! My husband graduated in May from Law School and the military paid for the tuition, gave us a living stipend of $1053 a month and a book stipend. Through God’s provision we will still have no debt after he takes the bar in July.
This is awesome! I just graduated law school and have almost 300,000 dollars in debt. The only school in my area was a private school, there was 11% increase in tuition each year that I was there, I had to take out extra money for child care, and ended up doing an extra year due to a baby, 2 deaths in the family (including my daddy) and the stress of suddenly finding myself a single mom.
My LSAT score was not high, I don’t test well. My GPA was ok. My school only offered scholarships to few people. In the end I wasn’t even able to take the bar due to financial issues. I was not able to work during school because I had limited childcare available.
I applaud your hard work and team work with your hubby. I’m about to start a Master’s Program next month and have been looking for every scholarship and grant I can find. I had to take out a few loans for this first year (I applied late) but I think I have enough free money to pay those loans off and to cover for my last year of school.
I’m thankful for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness programs and payments options. Otherwise I would be paying my loans until rapture. As I’m not willing to take a 60+ hour a week traditional law job. My boys are far more important to me right now.
I am also grateful for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program; I start law school next month and am hoping that this program will help ease the burden once I graduate. My school allows no outside employment for at least the first year (then just 20 hrs the next two) for full time students, so it was necessary to take out loans to cover tuition. However, we are using my husband’s income to live on and I accepted a scholarship to my third choice school (a public university) because it was more affordable. With the PSLF program, I am hoping that my career choice of becoming a prosecutor will be more attainable and easier to maintain. Prosecutors typically don’t make the “big bucks” after all 😉 but I’d rather do something I believe in than be miserable.
My school has the same job restrictions. For first year, school was your “job”.
I have several friends that went to the prosecutor’s office or public defender when the PSLF came out. I’m planning on starting a non-profit adoption agency/crisis pregnancy center when I complete my Master’s degree. I really don’t think I’d be able to do that with that program.
I’m right there with you on not being miserable, life’s too short.
I was going to mention the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program too; I work at a non-profit institution of higher ed, and my income + student loan debt qualifies me for it.
Awesome!! My husband did not go to college right after high school,and later decided he need to do this to-we sacrificed many things and waited to have children so I could work to put him through college (he worked too while getting his four year degree) and law school debt free. So glad we did it this way!!! Now I can stay home with my kids and we don’t have massive school loans to worry about!
These posts are always interesting to me, as we are about to begin our first year of law school in August. Every situation is unique. My husband decided to switch career paths at the age of 42 after a lot of prayer, and we have lived debt-free since we had our first son in 2007. With the addition of two children since then while living on a small salary in a high-cost-of-living area, the best we’ve been able to do is to shore up a decent emergency fund.
In no way, however, would there be enough for us to pay for the first year of law school plus living expenses unless we both worked. Several attorneys recommended he not work during his first year, so we’ve decided to do loans until next summer (but I’m hoping to start generating some income from home in the meantime). Our mantra: minimize debt. My hope is that we can cover our cost of living and tuition (only $5000 once we become residents) starting next summer.
It would be great to follow others who are in this path right now, so I’ll be sure to click on their website links as they try to live frugally in law school/grad school .
“Minimize debt” is our motto too! (husband’s in medical school, I’m finishing my PhD this summer…it’s tough, but you can do it!)
Very interesting.
My husband chose graduate school for a PhD rather than medical school primarily because grad school paid a stipend. It was not much, but it made it possible. I worked all the way through and we managed to pay off all his student loans while he was in school. If medical school had really been his passion we would have made it work, but we are happy we are in the position we are in now!
I just wrote a piece about the beginning of this process for us!
Neither my husband nor I are going to law school, but we are BOTH going to graduate school and trying to do it debt-free! We have been blessed in that both schools offered us great scholarships and we worked for four years beforehand to save up money, but it’s still going to be tight since we’re going to be New York City! One of the best ways to save would have been to go to school practically anywhere else, but with my husband going to a very specific seminary to train as a rabbi, there are very, very few choices for schools. Still, it will be an adventure and I love reading these kinds of stories for inspiration!
Way to go! I’m so proud of you for waiting and working to put yourself in a position to do this debt-free. It will be very worth it!
Thanks Crystal! I hope in two or three years I will be able to write you an article like this about how we did it!
Here’s the start of our journey: http://redefiningrebbetzin.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/new-york-on-a-budget/
That’s fantastic, Jessica! Good luck on your new journey!
I worked in law firms for years and saw young people saddled with a career they, if not simply hated, at least disliked, but that was required to pay off their student loans. Law School pays off well, if you are outstanding student with great connections and are patient.
In this economy I’m not sure that any degree is worth debt. I work for a university (faculty) and my kids can go “free” (except for X, Y & Z) and we may choose community college instead–it will be cheaper than the “free”. I’ve done the math!
Good point about that sometimes law school pays off. Many people beleive all lawyers make huge amounts of money. The truth is a few lawyers make huge amounts of money, some do quite well, and some get paid pretty moderately. It’s important to consider the type of law you aspire to practice before committing to taking on huge amounts of debt.
I’m in almost the same situation as Brittany and have done nearly everything she has (except my husband went to the school God led him to, and did necessary internships over the summers rather than making money) and we are graduating with quite a bit of debt that we will be careful to pay off as quickly as possible by our frugal lifestyle. While it may be possible to graduate law school with no debt, it certainly is not everyone’s available path no matter how much we pinch pennies and do without!
Our encouragement to people is to delay going to school for a few years (if need be) to save the money ahead of time. Then, choose the least expensive school that will adequately meet your future goals and look for every scholarship you possibly can. It’s much easier to save the money ahead of time, than to have to pay off large loans afterwards — at least from what we’ve seen in the hundreds of different attorneys whom we know/have come in contact with over the last eight years.
That said, while it didn’t work out this way in your situation, I applaud your desire to pay off the loans as quickly as possible. And I’ll pray that your husband gets a fantastic job, too!
I would have to disagree. Suze Orman calls tuition “good debt” because ultimately you are increasing your skills. Prior to getting higher education people may not be able to find good jobs that enable them to save that money. Personally, I have no marketable skills and have chosen to return to school despite the fact I will be required to take out loans.
In this day and age, a degree is not a guarantee of good income. We’ve seen many who have forked out thousands for graduate degrees only to be unable to find a job that supports their family and still gives them enough to pay off their school loans. It can be a huge burden for years to come.
I say it’s better to make serious sacrifices in the short-run that will pay off big time in the long run. Most people can find a job without a degree (mowing lawns, even) that, when coupled with a frugal lifestyle and scholarships, would allow them to save enough over 3-4 years to pay cash for college and/or graduate school — provided they aren’t forking out $200,000 for medical school.
For instance, in many cases, it’s possible to live on $15,000 to $20,000 per year (or less, if you’re single) and then have enough left over after paying for all your necessities to save $8,000 to $10,000 per year. Within 3-4 years, you’d have a very large amount saved to put towards college.
I don’t have a degree, but I know many friends and relatives who have both undergrad and graduate degrees and have gotten them without debt. In the long run, you’ll usually almost always be in a much better financial position paying cash upfront for school instead of having to carry around mountains of debt for years and years to come.
And yes, I know that this is very out-of-the-box thinking, but my goal here is to help people have a paradigm shift about money. Debt doesn’t have to be a way of life!
Well said. Debt doesn’t have to be a part of life.
I agree, debt is not necessary to get graduate degrees, even when you are single. I got my Master’s by working for several years and saving, and then going to a State school where I got an assistantship. I got my doctorate the same way, though I was married by then. My standard of living was much higher with my doctorate because I was married, but the technique is the same. Now I teach at a University and am really torn about the amount of debt my students are incurring. If they didn’t do it, I wouldn’t have a job, but I also think that most of them would be better off to save up or go part-time. Education used to be “good debt” and it still CAN be, but it is much less of a sure thing now.
I have run into this a lot with friends: Suze Orman VS Dave Ramsey…
In the end, each family has to choose what works for them.
I am a SAHM to my little ones, and not willing to give that up. We are upside down on our mortgage, so can’t sell. Husband works 60 hours a week (salaried) and goes to school. We took out a student loan, it’s just what worked for us. We are financially responsible, it scares me that folks who would otherwise educate themselves choose not to so as not to incur debt.
I think it really depends on your personal situation and what field you’re in. As a musician I know several people who were so concerned with their financial well being so they didn’t take risks (move to a new city for grad school, pursue a performance passion, etc..) and as a result sabatoged their career prospects. I also knew several people who attempted to work their way through school or delayed their education with similar results.
I’m certainly not advocating going $100K into debt for a degree in the arts (or really any degree, for that matter) but I do think there is a time and a place for pursuing your dreams. Within reason I think taking on debt can help you explore possibilities and experience things you wouldn’t if you were more financially conservative. I have several friends who took out student loans to buy instruments they needed to continue their studies. Yes, you really do need a good professional quality instrument to get any kind of work and for string instruments that starts at $10K these days. I was in school for almost ten years, have three degrees, and spent quite a few summer studying at intensive festivals and even went to Europe twice as part of summer programs. Yes, I have some student loan debt and it was worth it. I would do it again if I had to. Right now I’m not working very much because of my kids but when I was working to support myself the student loan payments were easily within the grasp of my income. Had I not invested in myself that way I may not have been able to make a living only as a musician and would have been terribly unhappy. Not the path for everyone, of course. Can’t imagine we’re all going to run out and encourage our kids to become musicians. But for me it was worth it.
My husband’s in medical school and we saved hardcore for about 2 years before he started so that we would have enough to live off of plus put some toward tuition (I’m a graduate student with a small stipend). We also chose the least expensive school in our state.
We could have continued saving another 3-4 yrs to pay for medical school in full, but chose not to because it was worth it to us for him to begin school while he was still in his 20s and we didn’t have any children. We should be able to pay off his school debt during residency and his increased earning years (gained by going to school 3-4 yrs earlier than if we’d paid cash) will more than make up for the loans we took. For us, the benefits of starting school earlier outweighed the drawback of taking loans. Just another data point, I guess 🙂
Thanks for sharing an additional viewpoint. I’m so proud of you guys for making such wise decisions about medical school and it’s fabulous to hear your forethought and calculating that went into the decisions you’ve made. I don’t believe I ever heard of someone paying off medical school while in residency. You should totally do a guest post on how you’re pulling that off when you get to that point!
Thanks Crystal, you’re such a sweetheart! I’d love to write a guest post on our medical school journey sometime – provided we make it through alive 😉
I would love a post on that; our goal was to rapidly pay off loans right after my husband completed law school; We’re working on it, but it is much harder than anticipated. His income is less than anticipated.
I am single lady and can see that it would be much easier to do this with two people working and earning.
Congrats! Student loan debt, stinks:)
I’m from Austin too and went to UT for undergrad. Hook ‘Em Horns!
Nice article with helpful tips. We save money by doing that and more. Unfortunately, we are in HUGE debt because of my husband’s medical school. It is sad because he is so smart and will be 35 when he is finished with his training. He is in his first year of fellowship and we have no savings, no retirement and owe the University of Louisville nearly 200,000. That is the average cost of medical school right now. I just hope and pray that by living on a budget now we will have the skills to pay off the debt as quickly as possible when it is all said and done with. Very sad that Doctors work the hours they do after giving over a decade of their life for training and most hospitals won’t pay off their loans. 🙁
Thank you for this! My husband and I are in the same situation, and I sometimes find it discouraging to read posts about attending school and coming out debt free. With the cost of his medical school tuition at approximately $43K per year, even scrimping and saving, working hard, and applying for countless scholarships is going to lead toward some unavoidable debt. We live on an incredibly meager budget and have sacrificed in countless areas, but will still have debt. I’m glad to know I’m not alone!
I watched my neighbors live a very frugal lifestyle until his medical school costs were paid off…they did it in about three years (after he graduated and started working) while also having three children. Then they saved another year or so and moved to a very nice home where they were able to pay for new furnishings, etc. I think part of the problem of having debt after you finish is the “I am a doctor now, I deserve to live high” attitude. If you can just stay frugal a little while longer, you will be able start off on a good foot once your career takes off. Good luck!!
You are not alone!
Go Cards!
This is almost the exact situatino my husband and I are in. My husband will finish his training when he is 34, and we will be about $180,000 in debt. We already have two children, and will have at least one more while he is in medical school, so I stay home with them and don’t work. We manage to live off his student loans and are keeping them to a minimum and living on less that what the med school says one person should be able to live on (so a very very strict budget). My husband was a business major with an emphasis on personal finance in college, so he’s good with money, and we have a plan that should get us out of debt within 5 years (probably less) after med school. It just means more discipline, like anything else.
I agree though, it is hard to see people talking about living debt free through school when it is absolutely impossible for us to do, but I believe we just have to each be comfortable that we are doing the best with the path we’ve been given, and I feel like my family is doing that too.
When my hubbie decided to go to seminary for becoming a pastor, we put our house on the market and moved to a SMALL apartment on campus. When our house did not sell we took out maximum loans. I was expecting at the time and it would have been extremely difficult for me to work because I get sick all the way through. We realized however, that if my husband were to work part-time while in school it would take two years instead of one to finish his degree and that would mean twice the time in a small home and twice the amount of money spent for school. We are so glad we went the avenue we did. We still haven’t sold our home but as soon as we do, we will be debt free! Something to consider when pursuing school!
I am a law student….well former I guess because I am studying for the bar right now. My husband and I live in a run down 300 square foot studio apartment but the rent is cheap for downtown Austin and electricity is included. My poor husband volunteered to sit in our closet area and watch dvds after work so I can use the apartment living area to study. I just keep reminding him debt is bad and closeness is good. 🙂
We lived in a tiny apartment to save money, too! My husband was applying for medical school and we knew we’d need every penny. I told him the same thing – it’s ok to live in such a small place because we love each other 🙂
My husband will be attending UT as well and we have been looking crazy for an apartment it is going to be hard but well worth it woohoo
Brittany!!! So fun to see your post here on MSM–I didn’t know you read Crystal’s blog! We’re about to enter hubby’s last year in law school, and praise the Lord, it looks like we will be able to get through completely debt-free (though there will still be bar prep fees and living expenses afterwards…working on trying to save toward those now). Way to go!!! You CAN get through law school without debt (and in our case, with having several children while in law school, too), with the Lord’s help and diligence in being frugal.
If you have income….single people in law school who are unable to get paying summer jobs may not be so lucky…I am blessed to have had paid summer internships and a husband who works but I have friends who had to work for free…even if you live frugally you need a source of funds.
Exactly Andy! I am single and had non-paying summer internships in law school that were in my field of interest that helped me secure a paying job after law school. I HAD to take out loans to pay my rent, food, etc. I did have a scholarship to a private law school, but did not graduate debt free by any means. Having a spouse or family nearby surely helps.
Yeah, being single and doing it does make it more difficult. If I had it to do over again, though, I’d go to school part-time and work as much as I could (even in a non-legal career). I had friends who did that. It took them twice as long to get through, but with little to no debt. Another friend worked for about 7 years before going to law school. They lived off their savings and only took out loans for tuition.
In my state, public school tuition for law schools was just as expensive as private! And it can be very, very difficult to find paying legal jobs while in law school unless your grades are very, very good. My grades were good (at least top 25%), but I still had to take non-paying jobs for good experience.
I totally agree–we have been blessed with my husband being able to find paying internships during summers, and he also works 15-20 hours a week during his semesters, in addition to studying and taking a heavy class load. If you’re single and aren’t able to find paying internships, your situation will be very different.
Again, we all do the best we can with the situation and resources God has given us, and all glory goes to Him for how He is working in each of our situations–whether you go through law school debt-free, or with some loans in the end, but valuable experience and a paying job. He is our Provider!
My husband is in an accelerated program and will be out in 2 years total. We actually looked at the difference between part-time (him still working full-time as a legal assistant) and him quitting and going full-time in this accelerated program. It helps that the full-time program offered him a scholarship that amounted to 2/3 of tuition, which was better than the part-time scholarship. The total loan figures ended up being within $20 K of each other. We decided, after a lot of discussion, that $20K was worth two years where he wasn’t gone 90 hours a week and graduating from a top 14 school instead of a Tier 2.
Congrats! But do please keep in mind, despite some folks’ hard work, graduating debt free may not be a realty. Major illness, injury, loss of job, and so forth can drain savings ever so quickly. I am truly thrilled for you, but I do hope that you aren’t looking down on others who graduate with debt and thinking that they are just poor managers of money.
I agree. Also, for some people, public universities are not an option. My husband used to be a pastor, so in preparation he had to get his degree at a denominationally affiliated private college (where we met). Even though he went to a community college for two years before that, he still ended up with some unavoidable debt.
As a 2010 law grad, I would say the best financial advice for most people is to not go to law school at all. Check out this recent NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/business/law-school-economics-job-market-weakens-tuition-rises.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2
That’s very interesting. I definitely agree that, in this economy, law school grads are having a harder time than ever. Many of my husbands’ friends are struggling to find employment.
I still think it’s possible to make good choices and end up in a good position, although I would agree that law school isn’t necessarily a ticket to a high-paying job. I happened across an article yesterday about the National Jurist rankings that rank schools according to graduates’ standard of living. It takes into account starting salaries, average debt, taxes, etc. I thought the list was very interesting: http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/best-law-schools-standard-living
Some of these factors are definitely worth considering before going to law school.
I am so encouraged by your determination and proud that you are an example to lots of people!
Thanks, Nicole!